For and Against

Had to read it twice, but is this about cows or veal?

@ckahn - sorry, it's about farrowing crates really, but can be extrapolated to more I think. I just had to get it out my system.

Very good nic 👍😘

I've seen how the poor sows are kept. It's inhumane. This is very well written. 😍

Good poem, terrible how they are treated 😞

@leelee101 @jojo72 @sjw - thanks, it is a tough one - welfare or efficiency! One day, hopefully, we

We'll have both!

Great write! Thought provoking topic.

Great write missy and v worthwhile topic ... Always a fan xxx

@Nom @DaddyDooDahs - thank you kind sirs! It is at the very front of my mind this week while working at a pig farm. Would be interested to know people's opinions of farrowing crates and intensive farming etc

@naaviie to be honest I have no idea what a farrowing crate is?

@Nom oh! Sorry! It is a metal cage that holds the sow in while she has and raises her piglets. It is only as big as the sow, so she can only stand or lie down. It is supposed to stop her lying on her piglets and killing them. It does reduce this, but not completely.

@naaviie that sounds cruel. How common is it that she would squash her piglets without the crate?

@Nom - I can't remember the exact figures from published studies, but from my experience I actually think there isn't that much of a difference. The free range farm I was at did have some, and sometimes it would be really awful with a whole litter being killed. Intensive system experience tells me a whole litter's death is near impossible (no space) but with the confined space the piglets are kept in (kept within 0.5m of the sow in each direction) some will always get stuck under their mum. They squeal their heads off - an outdoor sow will move, a crated sow can't. Technically they will be banned soon, because it goes against animal welfare standards (the five basic freedoms).

@naaviie well it does sound cruel. As a rule I'm against intensive farming, but at the same time we have gotten so used to cheap meat, that I think it would be hard to reverse that. I never buy battery caged hen eggs, but what's to say they haven't been used in anything else I buy?

@Nom - that's exactly it, we can't afford to, or don't want to, pay more for what we eat. Just look at the dairy farmers protesting today - they only make enough money to break even. Eggs is a massive consumer break through, I know m&s only use free range eggs in all their products etc.

@naaviie and look at the prices in m&s!

@Nom exactly!