United States Of Monstrosity

I understand your words but you have to agree these untouchable dictators committed horrific atrocities. Unfortunately there are other leaders still out there from non oil rich nations that have remained untouched. 🍸

That wasn't supposed to be cocktail. Far fingers 😔😔😔

@eddie12309 have they committed atrocities that outweigh the atrocities committed again them? We see a very one sided representation of atrocity. Israel can go into hazard whenever they please and use white phosphorous rounds, cluster bombs, both banned by the genera convention and massacre thousands without any reprimand whatsoever. Rebels fighting alongside al'qaida can murder and kill in abundance, and are supported by the USA to commit attributes far beyond the supposed dictatorships crimes. Look at how Gaddafi was killed. Could you imagine the same happening to Obama? It wouldn't happen. One rule for one, and to hell with the rules of others. If the Assad regime was truly committing atrocities against innocent people Russia and China would not continue to veto the resolutions. We are shown what they want us to see, in order to gain support for war crimes they will never answer to, because history is written by winners.

@Weirdwolf Gaza not 'hazard'?? Silly spell thingy!

Nicely put @Weirdwolf . Politics sucks and really dirty

I agree with this 100% the hypocrisy is so blatant!! The genocide in Bosnia was on our own doorstep and allowed to continue?? Israel continue to kill innocent Palestinians and get away with it there is a poem called "look into my eyes" which was made into a track by Danish group outlandish itss

Written by a Palestinian girl about what life is like check it out! Excellent write hun👏😘

Not to mention divide and conquer, and who has all the wealth from these dead leaders?! Not the countries that's for sure...sorry for the long comment I could go on and on it makes my blood boil! 😡

@sjw thank you, and I will look it 😉👍

@sjw we can see divide and conquer all across the middle east. The so called Arab Spring is media spin to incite division. And your spot in about the wealth. It costs in excess of £200,000 for one cruise missile. Funny how in a recession, the missiles keep firing!

@Weirdwolf war is big business isn't it! 😡👿 i

@sjw That's a fabulous song!!! Wow! Everyone should listen to this : Look into my Eyes - Outlandish

@Weirdwolf totally agree! 🙎

It's powerful isn't it I think the girl that wrote it was only 12 😔

Tell me then would you have lived in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya, if you have family would you live there under sadamm, taliban and gadaffi? I'm not disagreeing with what you say re America you have to ask yourself would you? @sjw

@eddie12309 yes I would. The reason being it would then be my culture, my way of life. Today two car bombs went off in Tripoli, that didn't happen under Gaddafi. What we need to remember is that the culture of the people, the diversity of their Islamic faith requires a film hand, an iron gauntlet, if you will, to maintain peace among the masses. We are not the same, yes, we all bleed red, but why must middle eastern countries be forced into western democracy? Hundreds of thousands of civilians have died sine the coalition invasion of the first gulf war, under Saddam Hussain a fraction of that. Same with Afghanistan, it's now a country that experiences civil disorder on a daily basis, the same now with Libya. If I lived there with my family I would have obeyed the rules of the culture, as I am forced to obey the rules of my own western culture. Who really wants a New World Order where we are all the same, at the expense of cultural diversity? The west didn't take out these leaders of nations for the benefit of those nations people, but for black gold and western dictatorship..

Oh don't worry I know exactly why they took them out. That's what I said at the start. But I'm sorry I don't agree that there faith demands ruling with an iron rod. It's the interpretation of religion. I don't believe there's anywhere in the Islamic faith that makes women so oppressed. People will judge me now. But religion is not for me. History has shown it has a lot to answer for.

@Weirdwolf If you're not with us, you're against us, punk!

@VikingHorn .... And that about sums it up nicely! 😂😂😂👍

@Weirdwolf Honestly, while I agree with much of what you say, especially that social diversity is a good thing, and that economic advantage is the primary driver of all our foreign policy, I don't agree at all that we can trust Russia and China to vote more on the basis of human rights concerns than their own political and economic advantage. I also don't believe we orchestrated much of the Arab Spring. We had a far more cozy relationship with Mubarak than with whoever will wind up holding the reins next. But it's true that nobody important gives a fuck what's best for any of the populations involved ... including ours.

@VikingHorn

@VikingHorn Religion and Currency is often in the shadow of all bad policy, and I doubt there's a politician in the world who is above or beyond its reach 😉

@Weirdwolf I think religion is nearly always an excuse, rather than a motivation.

@Weirdwolf And when I say motivation, I mean as a driver of policy. Certainly, religion is used as motivation in the same sense that a cattle prod is, to keep the herd moving I the right direction.

@VikingHorn Precisely, that is, man made religion, such as Christianity and Islam.

@Weirdwolf or should that be 'man serving'? The old gods are still there.

You cant say that you would live under those situations if you havent experienced them yoirself. After the Libyan rebel the people get to choose the way their own country is ruled, rather than an "iron gauntlet", Just cause its traditional, it doesnt make it right. And anyone a lot of the people werent happy with the way things were, and they showed that by rebelling.

@TommyWalsh but the rebellion would not have succeeded without western finance and western firepower. Therefore the west Dictates outcome.

@Weirdwolf They just helped an opressed people acheive freedom to choose how their own country is governed. I understand what you are saying about Israel, the insurgents and that. But not Libya or Bin Laden.

Bin Laden deserved what he hot after 9/11

*got

@TommyWalsh the Syrian situation is the same. The MOD is actively working with the rebels feeding them intelligence from military bases in Cyprus, through the Turks allowing ambushes. They also give arms and finance as does the US. Clinton donates an extra 50million to the Syrian rentals. That's a lot of firepower. You see, in these countries the accepted good guys are being slaughtered by the accepted good guys.

Im not saying I agree with the methods used. Some of them are just creating bigger problems in a war thats not their own. But I dont believe that any leader, religious or otherwise, has the right to opress its people, not give equal rights to women etc..

@TommyWalsh I'm just being the devils advocate here, but, we see oppression in burka's and a woman should know here place at home type of barbarism, but the see the oppression of women as pornography, stick thin models with plastic boobs, and promiscurity

@TommyWalsh the only one that will win over at the extinction of the other will be the one with the best firepower and the most coin.

@Weirdwolf I suppose you could say that. But that, i dont think, is as bad. Because not everyone goes for it, I mean, the media make it out to be a big deal for women ( men too) to be stick thin. But most men arent toi bothered. Its sort of grown from being lose weight to reach a healthy weight, and then people have taken it too far.

@Weirdwolf Maybe in time theyll both go? Or is that being too optimistic?

@TommyWalsh There would be nothing wrong with a fresh start, a clean page. Mankind should collectively learn from their mutual mistakes. But a mistake only follows a recognition of failure.

@eddie12309 the problem is the media portrays a lot of negativity in these middle eastern lands I have a few friends from Iraq, Libya and have lived in Egypt under Mubaraks regime what they say is that that their economy and country was more more stable than it is now, the west invaded Iraq over weapons that were never found and how did they do it! By using shock and awe tactics, if it was simply a case of removing a "dictator" why not send in the secret services and take that one person out? Instead of making a country unstable a lot of the time the ppl of these countries don't want intervention from the west @eddie12309 @TommyWalsh

@TommyWalsh the media put so much pressure on women to be perfect, you have girls of 14 15 talking about having no se jobs or boob jobs, fake tan, hair extensions false this and that this is oppression a different sort maybe but it's still oppression.

@sjw Im not saying that its not bad, it is. But I just dont think its oppression, its something different. Bad, just not the same as having few rights.

The trouble is our western culture gives us a very different mindset to middle eastern cultures, it's hard to understand it without living it...same way some of our ways are very alien to them for ex:- to them a women having to financially support herself is a form of oppression in their culture the men provide for the family and most women are happy with this, where as we think these poor women aren't allowed to work! Truth is in many circumstances they don't want to, they are content to be wives and mothers and this does not make them any less of a woman.

@TommyWalsh 👆

I just cant see how some magazines and mtv shows saying that you have have to be skinny to be pretty, is worse than not having total freedom. I mean there are places that dream where their biggest problem is how they look. Not hunger, not thirst, not slavery, not having few rights and not having a say over how you live your own life. If they are happy being housewives then good for them. But if not, well, they dont have much of a choice. Thats why Ill never see the medias pressure on appearance as that big a problem. Because its not them who decides that you dont think you are the right weight. You and only you can make that decision. I understand what you are saying about how a good number of them view woman working as alien. But I will never see the way appearances are scrutinized in our culture as a major problem. Because, as I said, only you can make the decision, the media cant force you to get fake tans and turn you into a plastic doll ( Botox creeps me out btw) its you who does it to yourself.

@sjw ^^ Woah thats long. Sorry if its a bit confusing, got carried away :S

Lol! Np...it is a big problem some women have low self esteem, but what I'm saying is the media play such a major pt in our society it's not always clear but they do manipulate our way of thinking they demonise certain cultures practises etc they show us a minority of reality and pass it off has the norm...and many of us take it in with out bothering to question it! Ex..ask ppl what they know about Islam most will reply it oppresses women, because this is what the media portrays! Fact is yes in some cases it does but it's a minority not the majority, I'm in Egypt at the moment and the country feels unstable the ppl are still not happy president Mubarak had a good relationship with Israel I can't help thinking that that Egypt's relationship with Israel is going to become very fragile therefore making the whole of the middle east less stable perhaps giving Israel the chance it needs to dominate the region something that western governments would benefit from perhaps?? Now I need to sleep I could talk about this for hours! Lol @Weirdwolf you opened up a good debate 😊

@TommyWalsh 👆sorry I keep forgetting to tag you because I'm half brain dead lol goodnyt 😊

@TommyWalsh @sjw oh my goodness just been reading all of this. I agree with tommywalsh. I also don't think you understood what I was trying to say. I wasn't saying it was ok for America to go in and take them out. I am anti war. Iraq was an illegal war and I would have matched if I hadn't of been for my husbands job. Gaddaffi was killed inhumanly by his own people. Just because it's considered tradition in my eyes doesn't mean it's right. Of course if you are born there you don't know any different - views and freedom of speech are suppressed, not to mention women's rights. Look at this from a different angle- look at pictures of women in Cairo from the 60's none of them have veils. Why has this changed? My husband was shot at getting the tax dodgers out of Libya. They put they're lives at risk for others. I think it's all bollocks. 😘😘

Also I'll have to delete this after its been read. Or I'll be shot. Lol 👆👆

@eddie12309 sorry hun if I missed your point, I think like you said if your born and lived under a dictatorship it's true you know no difference, and yes ppl go and risk their lives but I agree with Weirdwolf in that who are we to impose our western ideas on these ppl what gives us the right to invade some of these countries just because their leaders do not conform to our governments ideas maybe their we're less pics of women in burka's in the 60's because the media were not such key players? I don't know but what I do know is that a lot of these women wear it because they choose to not because they are forced to, it gives them a sense of honour and freedom some actually feel liberated that they aren't just seen as a sex object..I'm not saying I agree, I just think we should be careful and not take on everything the media shows us as gospel. It's a huge debate isn't it so many questions and so many different opinions...😘

@sjw @sjw oh I totally agree nobody should impose on another the only thing I don't agree with is the atrocities that happened under r

@sjw aghhhh I just typed a big reply and it's disappeared. Basically agree with you just not the act that these dictators didn't array out terrible atrocities. I watched a programme made by the lecturer of Islamic studies at Oxford Uni a few years ago audit was a real eye opener. Yes te media portrays a one sided argue meant to suit thier needs but the Internet is also guilty of shovelling bullshit at people too from the other side of the coin. Anyway I'd better delete my previous comment or I'll ebhung drawn and quartered. Lol. Xxx

@eddie12309 agree Internet/media possibly as guilty as each other but at the moment the Internet has more freedom. Atrocities do take place, but our own governments a far more sinister that they would have us believe IMO its their hypocrisy that makes my blood boil, but I do respect your views hun I've had my say so I think I'd better stop clogging up @Weirdwolf feed lol 😘

@sjw You can clog my feed up anytime 😉