Capital Punishment

Against: the only reasonable argument for capital punishment is that it is a deterrent but it clearly isn't as exemplified by such states in the USA where it is still practiced. The finality of the death penalty negates all possibility reprieve, rehabilitation, appeal etc. if judgement were later found to be incorrect then who is held to account for their negligence, and at the cost of another's life, what is their punishment? If we maintain laws which assert taking another persons life is illegal then it is both illogical and amoral for that law to take a life. /opinion

@Maunder wow good stuff, some would argue saying what about immoral crimes such as rape, child abuse, or murder etc. it could be said that these people give up there rights and deserve death, as essentially they have taken a persons life. Also families of victims of murder rape etc. would argue that on fact if you went through this feeling with the emotions of rage anger revenge would you not want punishment? With the technology being much more advanced then the past would the convictions be much more reliable then say 20-50 years ago?

@Maunder just a thought by the way trying to be provocative lol :-)

@aleishagayle20 I agree with @Maunder the only way to prevent these things is to find out the reason why people are doing evil acts, perform tests with them, to try to find out what it is in there life that is driving those emotions. If you just put them to death you have no way of trying to fix the problem for the future. if you can identify the problem you can perhaps try to change it from the ground up, you will be helping people to have better life's in the process.(-:

@aleishagayle20 You're welcome to provoke me all you like :-) While I understand the victim of the crime wanting justice, being reactive and emotional in handing out punishment is extremely inappropriate in my opinion. Suppose the accused and subsequently sentenced was found guilty of pre meditated murder. Suppose the details of his crime were pretty horrific. But suppose his motivation was revenge against someone who killed (perhaps accidentally) his partner and children. How differently motivated is it then for his sentence to be death when it is one revenge for another? It seems that underlying this question is what should be the motivation for any punishment given out in judgement, and should that motivation be different case by case or consistent? Do we want to rehabilitate an offender to allow them to rejoin society or do we want to separate or remove them from society? It is undoubtedly a difficult subject but no one has any right to take another's life in either crime or in its punishment (IMO).

@Stablish but as murder is so rare is really trying to discover a psychosis the answer? Will it really the solution to preventing it?.

@Maunder emotional influences could be the wrong way to look at it? What about child abuse? While it's very touchy is it not extreme? I'd a person is a pedophile and rapes abuses and kills a child do they not deserve the death penalty? Statistics have shown that prisons do not rehabilitate and often prisoners reoffend within a year. I wounded if the solution would be taking all circumstances into account when sentencing would rule of unfair sentencing?

@Maunder plus would you say that a man like fritz did not deserve death penalty? Or even consider the cases like Bulger, Rose West and the more extreme murders committed?

I think the punishment should fit the crime, in an eye for am eye fashion. There are worse fates than death.

@aleishagayle20 I'm all for it BUT it cannot be judged that easy as each case would be different, it would have to go to high court, European courts ect. I agree also that trying to find out reasons why they would do such crimes as paedophiles, rapes, murder ect is important, for example: if someone is a paedo and he/she was abused as a child and then goes on to abuse does he/she deserve death? Maybe death would be kinder? I'd say get to the root of the problems first. In USA people can be on death row for years at the expense of tax payers money.....most criminals need help/guidance not thrown into a pit and forgotten, they often come out worse, looking for revenge or become institutionalised and cannot cope with outside life. Some Will plead insanity too for an easier ride.

@Weirdwolf that's one way too look at it as long as all the evidence has been presented. And ooo do tell?!

@smellyfingers I agree there should be better services in prisons as it would help reduce reoffending but I suppose there's always that question of are sincerity

@aleishagayle20 Though I stand a chance of causing offence to some in saying this, I cannot represent my point of view without doing so. It is this: in the case of something like child abuse as indeed you refer to the fritzel (sp?) case, I believe it is an emotional rather than logical or moral stance to sentence such an offender to death. It is only vengeance that seems to morivate and speak through such a sentence and I have to stand by the position that vengeance has no place in sentencing. In an earlier reply you made the argument that perhaps someone guilty of an obscene crime might forfeit their rights including their right to live. My opinion is simply that even if any person loses their right to live, no body else has the right to take it from them.

@smellyfingers * some crimes that are that bad violent and disgusting do they deserve life?

@aleishagayle20 Well, let's assume all evidence is sound in the case of a paedo, and also keeping in mind smellyfingers comment regarding a kind of hereditary paedophillia, the best form of punishment has to be castration, and some kind of facial tattoo. This not only breaks the hereditary cycle, not only removes the desire but also removes a large part of the threat of re-offending due to public awareness. As for murderers, after all things considered, and I mean all things, as nothing is ever clear cut, if a man or woman kills without good reason, then their life should be forfeit, but not taken. A murder can dig a hole, build a bridge, pick crops. Forfeit their life instead for a lifetime of labour, at least their lives could be forced into purpose rather than wasted completely.

@aleishagayle20 as for rapists, again, give them a badge of dishonour, something they can never remove, something that will never wash off. An eye for an eye. The main problem with the current systems is that they are morally outdated as the judiciary is removed from the main populace.

@Maunder hehe I haven't actually written my own opinions on this topic I'm merely putting provocative scenarios down. And it's true emotions are the reasons for the death penalty but I also put to you that do people deserve the death penalty that's all and I don't think you've offended anyone this is an open debate I welcome all ideas

@Weirdwolf but there are those who would argue that letting them live is rewarding them with there life, for example a murder has taken a life? The murderer can go about his business live there own life regardless of labour or work or even freedom they still have the luxuries of life do they not?

@Weirdwolf sometimes the idea of death for a hideous crime can sound the best idea but IMO and I'm a lover not a fighter but extreme cases I'd rather see/know they suffering in some hell hole being beaten and mentally tortured. Then there's cases like bulger, 2 kids kidnapping a toddler, torturing and leaving him to die. They get a few years inside get rehabitated, educated and new identities in safe houses is just wrong IMO

@smellyfingers that case is a brilliant example and actually what made it worse is that Venebles was released and a few years later reoffended! Was found with child pornography, pictures and videos of violence towards children which caused major outcry.

@smellyfingers hey this might sound really stupid but what does IMO stand for?

@aleishagayle20 IMO = in my honest opinion. Well my moto is, I'll forgive you once. Maybe twice, but keep fucking up and that's it, we is over and hell have no fury

@Weirdwolf yeah may rapist tattooed on their forehead and I see what your saying but laws are being updated and csi are improving incredibly

@smellyfingers hey I have chubby little fingers not even had this phone a week still getting used to the touch screen lol besides not good with abbreviations :-/

@smellyfingers I agree to the beatings, I'm talking forced, hard labour, still living yes, but a life of hard suffering. A for the boys who murdered Jamie, they should have been publicly hung instead of publicly supported to breath. Some cases really do deserve death, that was a horrific, sustained, mutilation, the fact those boys are rewarded with not just life, but new lives, is a perfect example of corrupted morality and outdated beliefs, in my opinion.

@@Weirdwolf *James, my apologies.

@Weirdwolf how about we ship them off to Iraq/afghan and let then walk into the landline fields instead of our heroes being blown up? Id be up for that as we seem to but our noses into all the latests wars? Leave em there for the vultures?

@smellyfingers Agreed! Sounds like a perfect strategy!

@Weirdwolf @smellyfingers that's sound god actually still think tattooed heads is good ooooo or maybe both tattoo them and then send them iraq hehe I'm sure that is a rather vulgar death guaranteed :-/

*good so sorry these fingers are terrible :-/

They call em' fingers, but you never see em' fing!

Lol don't see them er either :-/

This is a very good point, which shall require much contemplation.

@Weirdwolf hehe rofl ill leave you to your deep contemplation then :-D

I personally agree with capital punishment. From a very young age I have realised how primitive human beings actually are, in the things we do, the way we act and the tiny knowledge of the world and universe we know. The death penalty, I believe, is simply a way of taking away the evil people who are beyond reform, rather than shutting them up in a prison for the rest of their lives, all at the cost of tax payers. I do not believe that a person deserves to suffer permanently for their wrongs, but a truly evil person will not change and instead of causing drama over punishing them is it not simply the easier and better way to take them off the face of the earth, so that no more harm can be done by them? Yes, they do deserve suffering, but ask yourselves; what is more important? Safety of others or payback on those who have wronged?

@Hannah1996 it's the argument on rights for all or some again? Whether the rights of an individual outweigh the rights of the public and viva versa.

Oh right well that's a tough one to be honest..but does it all boil down to the trust we can put in our law system? General public win I believe

@Hannah1996 well without the system what would we be? As bad as things are now and as bad as the politicians are now the legal system has a lot of benefits to it as well, do you think it was easy for the judiciary to abolish slavery or to allow women the right to vote? There will always be criticism but I feel the public still need guidance to live.

Exactly, I am one hundred percent for the law system and I agree with your every word. What I meant was that only our law systems have the power to decide who's rights outweigh what and so we must trust them for that? Yes politics is currently appalling, but is the High Court?

@Hannah1996 IMO the law system has so many flaws just as the politicians lol we have strayed way off the subject lol but good chat :-)

@Hannah1996 and really we do have the European court of human rights and the human rights act 1998 which gives individuals as well as the public rights IMO the rights are far better then countries outside the EU.

I would be in favor of capital punishment IF we lived in an ideal world, i.e if trials could bring out the truth.

Sorry I sent an incomplete comment. There is always the possibility that you are deemed guilty even if actually innocent. But if we have already sentenced you to death and killed you, how could we make up for that? While if we have only jail (and no capital punishment) then the mistakes made in the trial can always be corrected, and you can be re-established in society.

@alexcorezzola hasn't CSI advanced dramatically though ensuring more accurate evidence? And there are always mistakes, if you look at doctors they often makes mistakes? So us not in fact more agreeable to bring in capital punishment now?

Evidence is never certain, it can be forged or altered. Scientific police makes mistakes like everybody else. Yeah doctors make mistakes too of course.

@alexcorezzola exactly but do you not agree that there are criminals who's crimes are so heinous that they deserve the death penalty (?) that

@alexcorezzola sorry lol and that when it is clear from the evidence that they are guilty? I spoke of a few cases above as examples?

@aleishagayle20 yeah in principle I agree. If u kill people then you represent a danger to society. If I put u in prison you can always escape but if I kill you I get rid of the problem. This is the only way I see it: not for revenge, but for "practical" reasons. But due to the possibility of mistakes in trials, I'm against capital punishment.

@alexcorezzola okay thanks I'm just provoking you all IMO I a

I am for capital punishment lol sorry fat fingers :-) and I know from experience the need for revenge regardless of opinions unless you've lost someone to murder you could never know that pain or desire for punishment. And since prison rehabilitation is so poor people such as myself feel it is not appropriate punishment.